Catherine Valdez: Thank you for agreeing to this interview, Doug. Your novel was such a fun and engaging read. So many lines lingered with me. In the very first chapter, for example, I was drawn to this line: “sometimes, ‘objects of power don’t reveal themselves to the mortal plane unless called forth with a summoning spell.’” What objects of power have you encountered in your life?
Doug Henderson: Books, lucky charms, dice! I’m currently wearing a silver chain with a shield on it that my late mother gave me. It’s literally an amulet of protection. On the back of the shield there’s an inscription: “Lord, please watch over my son and shield him from…” I’m not religious, but the sentiment behind the necklace is very powerful to me. What kind of person could receive such a gift from their mother and not wear it? Seems like they’re skirting disaster.
CV: Whenever I encounter a new debut author, I’m curious as to what other writers and creators they’re in conversation with. And I’m especially excited when there are authors in the fantasy and sci-fi space writing queer stories. So generally, I’d like to know: What was the first piece of media where you saw queer representation? What was the last (or most recent) media? How has queer representation changed between the two? How do you localize your own fiction within this?
DH: Queer people have always existed in media, in one way or another, so it’s very hard to say what the first piece of representation was for me, but I probably didn’t see myself in it. For the longest time, queer culture seemed too fabulous, or too fashionable for me to related to. I didn’t look in that direction for a very long time. I was already a nerd, so the thought of being a nerd and queer was too much to handle. I think, and hope, that queer representation has broadened since then, and I would be very happy if my work has contributed to that. I recently read the first volume of the Heartstopper comics and I loved it because the characters were so well rounded.
CV: Dungeons and Dragons has a very prominent role in your novel. How would you break down this game for someone who has never played? And I’m curious, how did you get started in D& D, and how involved are you?
DH: I always pitch it as group storytelling. Despite all the rules and things, storytelling is still at the heart of it. I got into it as a kid, in the mid-eighties, during summer camp one year. I overheard some kids talking about how so-and-so brought his D&D books to camp, can you believe it? What a nerd. And I thought, oh, that must be the tent to hang out in. I’d only heard of the game at that point, and it was supposed to be evil, and who wouldn’t be curious about a tent full of evil books? I’m currently hosting a weekly D&D club for the San Francisco Public library. It’s totally benign.
CV: Is there a lot of overlap between queer spaces and D&D communities?
DH: Yes, so, imagine you’re into this thing that no one else is into, and you love it so much it’s all you want to talk about or do. But you can’t do it or talk about it, because no one around you understands. Your friends think it’s weird, and your parents think it’s evil, and wished you were into normal things like everyone else. You can only do it or talk about it with people who are in the know. And you can only find these people through select spots online or by going out and looking for them. Maybe you have to wear particular clothes, or use a special language, or go to certain kinds of places and ask around. I’m not even sure if I’m talking about being queer or playing D&D anymore, so yes, there’s a lot of overlap.
CV: What do you think other authors and creators can learn from engaging with this game?
DH: Certainly, the value of improvisation and going with the flow, following the story where it wants to go, instead of holding onto it too tightly and forcing it to go one way or another. Also, the game allows characters to do things that may be dangerous or unwise. And I think, sometimes, as writers, we’re reluctant to put our characters in danger or have them do something they know is a bad idea, because why would they? But that’s where the fun really starts. Many times, the story of the game only develops because someone did something they shouldn’t have.
CV: One thing that has always stuck out to me with stories that borrow the D&D scaffolding is the question of agency. D&D is so dynamic. It calls upon a player’s imagination and spontaneity. It also calls forward their inner performer and campiness. But despite how much freedom there seems to be, there are strict limits. The players, for one, are guided through a campaign by a dungeon or game master, who exerts different amounts of control in a campaign depending on their playstyle. Then there’s the limiting factor of the dice which really determines how you’re able to realize your choices. And it’s these two things, the illusion of limitless choice and the reigns of game parameter, that really make me want to analyze how agency works in stories. And your novel, where the space of the campaign and reality seem to be blending, seems to actively be working with the theme of agency. So, I’m curious about how you approach the theme of agency when you’re developing your characters. Overall, how would you say agency is operating in your story?
DH: Yes, agency is one of the big themes and questions of the novel, and each of the characters has a different take. Mooneyham would say he has a lot of agency, although he’s not fully out and can’t really be himself at work, while Ben laments fate and the cruel inner workings of the universe, but is actually quite capable of making things happen for himself. Celeste, who is building, sometimes physically out of models, the world for the game, still tries to keep an open mind to her players’ ideas. Valorie doesn’t think too far ahead, or deeply at all. She stays in the moment, and so she’s blindsided when things change. How these different characters interpret the world, real or imaginary, is part of the fun of the book, and the reason why a game like D&D is the perfect vehicle for that.
CV: I absolutely loved your world building. Readmore Comix and Games, especially, is such a vivid place. How did you approach setting in this story? What advice do you have for others who struggle with this element in their fiction?
DH: Thank you! I wanted these spaces to be cluttered, and feel lived in. I spent a lot of time, with my mind’s eye, looking around and taking note of all the details. What’s on the shelves? What’s under the bed? How do these characters live and what’s important to them? Also keeping in mind that the characters would much rather be in their fantasy worlds than straightening up their places. So, my advice would be to hang out in the spaces that you’re writing about, loiter there in your mind.
CV: Which scenes were most difficult to write, and which ones were the easiest?
DH: The kiss-in was by far the most difficult scene. I put off writing it for a very long time. I knew that the various story elements would coalesce there, but I didn’t know how to pull it off. I really thought I was never going to finish the book because I couldn’t get through the scene. Then, I went with my husband to his high school reunion and met another writer there. This writer’s advice was to try drawing the scene instead of writing it. Visualize it and put it down on paper in a different way, instead of in words. So, I went back to the hotel and drew the scene on some scrap paper. I drew a map of the bar, where the jukebox was, where the characters were standing, where they would move, etc., and that broke through the mental block for me. And I’ve used that technique a few times since. The easiest scenes were probably the scenes with Valerie. She’s such a funny character to me. She’s the least inhibited and there’s something very freeing about that.
CV: What inspired you to include romance in this novel? In your opinion, what is the ideal meet cute?
DH: Romance was at the core from the very beginning. The novel started as a short story about the budding relationship between Ben and Albert, but I quickly realized there was a cast of characters and a whole world around them. Again, I wanted to write against stereotypes. I wanted to write a queer romance that wasn’t secret, or shameful, or full of self-torture and tragedy. I’m a sucker for meet cutes! I find them so charming. Ideally, they give us a sense of how urgently these characters need to get together, while at the same time, making it seem painfully impossible that they’ll ever do so.
CV: What do you hope readers take away from this novel?
DH: That there is space for them at the table, gaming or otherwise, and that it doesn’t matter how awkward or undeserving they might feel, they can still manifest their desires into the real world, like calling forth an object of power with a summoning spell.
Doug Henderson is the author of The Cleveland Heights LGBTQ Sci-Fi and Fantasy Role Playing Club, and winner of the PEN/Dau Short Story Prize for Emerging Writers. His work has appeared in The Iowa Review, Short Édition, and elsewhere. Originally from Cleveland, he received his MFA from the University of San Francisco. He lives in the Castro District with his husband and two children.